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Post by tigers on Mar 14, 2008 17:15:36 GMT -4
It appears that the committee format will be one of two ways with each having good and not so good points. We need to adopt the one that causes the least friction. The committe should obviously take input from owners regardless of which format is chosen. Committee members should not be permanent and thus subject to replacement in order to prevent owners from maximazing their influence on the party over the years. Thee members are enough, thus not too many and not too few.
1) One plan calls for the committee to present 2-3 plans for a league vote. This is good in the sense that everyone will have a final say and vote their preference. It's bad in that all the work the committee did to plan might possibly be all for naught if some owners take the opportunity to tear it down. What this means is that we don't trust the committee.
2) Give the committe the absolute right to totally plan the party. This is bad in that it doesn't allow for a majority league-wide vote. It's good in that the committee's great efforts are realized and thus accepted as final. No drawn out bickering is permitted. The discontented ones will have to get over it and volunteer the following year if they think they can do a better job.
I'm leaning towards #2 because it lessens friction, and I am willing to trust and acquiesce to their choices. My mind is not made up on the matter and welcome other viewpoints.
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Post by wardogs on Mar 17, 2008 12:46:03 GMT -4
Tigers, you need to start thinking about your first committee plan, there is no chance of plan #2 getting passed. I took a pole and at least 4 members are dead set against giving a committee the final say
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Post by uhlans on Mar 17, 2008 14:16:32 GMT -4
Tigers, you need to start thinking about your first committee plan, there is no chance of plan #2 getting passed. I took a pole and at least 4 members are dead set against giving a committee the final say Is this yet another of your unsubstantiated claims? You took a pole? Raise your hand if you took part in a War Dog pole? Who without checking/asking have you taken the liberty of speaking for this time? Do you realize we have learned not to believe your generalized statements as fact without checking? Come on who took the pole? ?? And what was the pole question or questions. When was the pole taken? Tomorrow? Sorry, but you simply tell too many stories for me to believe this on your word alone. Yes I feel better, it needed said. Whats funny about all of this is I get the impression that some of us don't trust others to do the right thing and after all these years thats just sad..........
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Post by tigers on Mar 17, 2008 16:56:08 GMT -4
I just said I'm leaning towards #2. I only also asked for viewpoints. Are polls meant for only certain people, or is everyone elligible?
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Post by uhlans on Mar 17, 2008 18:36:46 GMT -4
The War Dogs did not ask 1. The Uhlans 2. The Red Tide - I asked him today 3. Rebels - I asked him today 4. Tigers - inferred from his previous post.
Me thinks one has been taking liberties yet again......
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Post by tigers on Mar 18, 2008 7:17:53 GMT -4
I also was only mentioning the party committee might ought to have authority to decide since they're putting in the work. The key words here are MIGHT OUGHT TO. This wouldn't mean that any other committee will have the authority to decide any issue. Each committee is best to be unique unto itself.
The Bulls have spent countless years securing us party information. He has now volunteered to serve on the first one. In my lone opinion, he has definitely earned that right.
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Post by tigers on Mar 18, 2008 7:19:34 GMT -4
Should a member be able to serve on two different committees at the same time?
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Post by tigers on Mar 18, 2008 7:28:01 GMT -4
Two members contacted for their opinion out of seven doesn't qualify as the pulse of the league. I doubt the War Dogs asked the Ratz since nobody else can reach him.
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Post by tigers on Mar 18, 2008 7:33:51 GMT -4
I want to know how it can smoothly work to present 2-3 plans for a final vote without smacking a beehive at the same time. What's that procedure for those who favor it? What if no plan gets a majority vote?
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Post by wardogs on Mar 18, 2008 9:48:00 GMT -4
ulins, the WARDOGS did not ask the Tigers, Rebels, or Red tide because having already talked to the Murderers, Rats, and Bulls it was made very clear that they are not in favor of this fascist bull, hopefully the rest of the league will come to their senses, and I WILL SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME THIS IS TOTALLY NOT NEEDED. All we need is a rule that says we will decide and vote as a league before the last meeting. This will resolve the one and only problem that we had last year. ulins do not try to minimize this response, and Tigers understand this would set a very bad precedence for the league...we have never moved forward with any thing in this league without a FULL VOTE OF ALL MEMBERS. If you look at our current rule book you will see that this goes against established rules that are in effect now
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Post by wardogs on Mar 18, 2008 10:36:01 GMT -4
Two members contacted for their opinion out of seven doesn't qualify as the pulse of the league. I doubt the War Dogs asked the Ratz since nobody else can reach him. who is spreading this terrible rumor about the Rats.... it is not true...I talk to the Rats all the time without any problem.
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Post by wardogs on Mar 18, 2008 11:09:01 GMT -4
Tigers, you need to start thinking about your first committee plan, there is no chance of plan #2 getting passed. I took a pole and at least 4 members are dead set against giving a committee the final say Is this yet another of your unsubstantiated claims? You took a pole? Raise your hand if you took part in a War Dog pole? Who without checking/asking have you taken the liberty of speaking for this time? Do you realize we have learned not to believe your generalized statements as fact without checking? Come on who took the pole? ?? And what was the pole question or questions. When was the pole taken? Tomorrow? Sorry, but you simply tell too many stories for me to believe this on your word alone. Yes I feel better, it needed said. Whats funny about all of this is I get the impression that some of us don't trust others to do the right thing and after all these years thats just sad.......... UNSUBSTANTIATED...NAME ONE TIME ON THESE ISSUES I HAVE RELATED FACTS AS I UNDERSTAND THEM. JUST BECAUSE YOU DO NOT AGREE DOES NOT MAKE THEM ANY LESS TRUE...SO I WILL REPEAT WHAT I THINK IS TRUE AND YOU TELL ME WERE I AM UNSUBSTANTEATED 1. WHEN I ASKED THE RATS ABOUT THE ALL POWERFULL COMMITTEE HIS RESPONSE WAS "F### THAT WHEN I ASKED THE MURDERERS HE SAID EXACTLY THE SAME THING, THE BULLS WAS MORE DIPLOMATIC BUT WAS STILL AGAINST. 2. ON THIS RIDICULOUS DUES INCREASE, I WAS TOLD BY 2 MEMBERS THAT THIS WOULD CREATE HARDSHIP FOR THEM INCLUDING ME THIS IS 3 MEMBERS THAT WILL HAVE A VERY HARD TIME WITH A DUES INCREASE. AT LEST 1 MEMBER HAS SAID THAT HE WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO PLAY. WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT THESE ARE FACTS, SO LETS TALK ABOUT WHAT IS NOT FACT BUT JUST RUMORED OPINION. 1. THAT THE LEAGUE CAN'T DECIDE ON A PARTY WITHOUT A COMMITTEE..LAST I CHECKED WE HAVE DONE IT FOR YEARS AND LAST YEAR WAS THE ONLY PROBLEM. 2. THE LEAGUE WILL NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM TRYING TO DO THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO WITHOUT RAISING THE DUES. SO JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE FACTS.....DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE NOT TRUE
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Post by tigers on Mar 18, 2008 17:30:43 GMT -4
Get the off the dues raise already. If at least five people vote how they truly feel, the raise is coming. Very few want to chop back the prize money, and most want to have a nicer night out than we did this past year. Fascism comes into play when members engage in unethical tactics like threatening resignations and strong-arming family members. I will not stoop so and am content to just voicing my heart and feelings on all matters.
The War Dogs are right in saying I don't like that facts. The numbers are the facts and they don't lie: 1) Last year, planning for the party became a problem because our worthwhile options were very few due to insufficient funds in planning for nicer activities. The old have a presentation party and go home is not what most members want. This is what we are facing. 2) Now throw in the cost of the internet and the fact the Rebels are no longer driving, it CANNOT be done on 680 credits. You'd have to dip into the prize money, and there's not near the desire or enough votes to do that. 3) As tight as we are at my house, I've already put aside $18 over the last 2 weeks. I don't buy this s#*# I cannot pay 85 more credits. Any member that cannot see through to pay 85 more yearly credits in order to have and do nicer things is being misled down the dark path of stagnation.
FOR THIS SPECIAL NIGHT, ENOUGH PEOPLE WANT TO GO FORWARD, NOT BACKWARD. FOT THE BRIGHT PROMISE IN THE FUTURE OF THE LEAGUE, IT WILL GO FORWARD IF THOSE ALL THAT FAVOR IT STICK TO THEIR GUNS.
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Post by tigers on Mar 18, 2008 19:37:09 GMT -4
War Dogs,
You totally misunderstand me. The last thing I'd ever want to do is set a bad precedence when it comes to actual voting on any proposal. 1) I stated in a previous post that the ENTIRE league must vote on wether committees can exist at all. 2) If it passes, the ENTIRE league must vote on the number of committee members and who's on them. 3) If it passes, the ENTIRE league must vote on what these committees can and cannot do.
I haven't talked to the Murderers, but I have talked to the Bulls. I know he's against the committee having the final say but not necessarily against the idea of a committee. I'VE PERSONALLY STATED I HAVEN'T EVEN MADE UP MY MIND ON THIS POINT BECAUSE I STILL BELIEVE THAT WE AS ADULTS SHOULD BE ABLE TO VOTE ON THE COMMITTEE'S HARD WORK WITH RESPECT TO THEIR EFFORTS.
Once again, I feel I'm getting crucified for the very existence of ideas, and I hope that this isn't used to torpedo the idea of committees all together which may have been the plan all along. I might be getting the real gist of what has methodically happened to many proposals, good or bad, long before my participation. The wall is so much larger than I've dared to perceive.
Some members have said they are willing to vote to trust the committee's efforts. I've only said I'm considering it. But five members in a league-wide would have to vote and agree to trust the committee. There's your league vote.
If the committee formation is voted upon favorably, I NOW FAITHFULLY VOLUNTEER MY SERVICES AND HELP PLAN A MEMORABLE PART NIGHT WE'LL ALL FONDLY REMEMBER.
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Post by tigers on Mar 18, 2008 23:57:44 GMT -4
I've seriously underestimated many things and now wonder how anything at all has ever gotten done. There probably isn't the words to express it. I'm just sitting here in shock at the utter sense of futility many of you have surely felt over the many years.
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